|
Relays
Aug 8, 2009 11:15:51 GMT -8
Post by Seabiscuit on Aug 8, 2009 11:15:51 GMT -8
|
|
|
Relays
Aug 9, 2009 8:50:03 GMT -8
Post by zoser on Aug 9, 2009 8:50:03 GMT -8
Your fallacy is debating me is you always try to pigeonhole me and how I come to conclusions, and you are wrong everytime. I got the 200 in there you have chosen to ignore your own criteria in evaluating Rodgers. You did throw Ivory and Rae in the conversation when you said you would take both of them over Rodgers. So yes my point stands. You have decided to use experience and 200 ability over current form to a point of destruction. Simply put I am not ignoring Mike's season simply because you have convinced yourself he fades, which he has shown no signs of this summer. He did not fade at Pre, nor US nationals. He ran masterfully at Reebok. And his 10.03 was right in line. He started to fade fitness wise and smartly took it to the pits. Now he has given you 10.13 into a 1.5, makes him 10 flat right now. To your point he has also given us 20.24 in Brazil on a double day. His 200 ability is sufficient in terms on your philosophy in pushing the zones. Shawn? Yeah he is different but that does not supplant the fact that you are banking on hope rather than what is right before your eyes. I want Wallace because I like him and in form he is a monster on the backstretch, BUT given his injuries and form why in the world would I chose him over Rodgers based on track issues? I cannot. For 120 meters I am not seeing anyone better than Mike right now sans Tyson. Your argument for your construct can be summed up in hope. Why? Because you are requiring us all to hope your 200 runners find their form by the 22nd. I know Mike is in form, and barring injury will be hot for a medal. I do not have a solid argument to exclude him other than experience.
And after watching the video of Cottbus I now know Rodgers belongs on that relay. He had to slow down to pass to Shawn, who also showed me he is ready for that relay.
|
|
|
Relays
Aug 9, 2009 16:14:36 GMT -8
Post by sprint logic on Aug 9, 2009 16:14:36 GMT -8
Like I said ... I'm talking about the relay ... You keep talking about the 100 ... And they are two different events ... Nothing left to argue about ... Now I do want to take a look at the video ..
|
|
|
Relays
Aug 9, 2009 16:26:43 GMT -8
Post by sprint logic on Aug 9, 2009 16:26:43 GMT -8
Just watched both videos .. Yes we ran 37.85 .. No that won't get it done in Berlin .. And to be quite honest the only person I liked on that relay was Crawford ..
Comparing that run to the women's, Trammell was nowhere near as dominant on leadoff as Lauryn and Rodgers was nowhere near as dominant as Allyson .. And considering that they were running against "comparable" competition they should have been and needed to be for what they are facing next .. A man as fast as Zoze keeps talking about on that second leg should have dissected the field - and didn't ...
And both anchors, while running free, appeared a bit tight - Jeter and Doc ... Doc's got to open up better than that or he could get caught .. May have to reassess that slot ..
Looks like they want to lead off Tyson .. I understand the logic - fewer changes if the injury flares up and prevents him from running .. And makes it easy to sub him from one round to the next .. Now I need to see a practice session or something .. Doc has me guessing ... And need to see Rae and Ivory ..
Could go with Tyson - Wally - Shawn - ? .. Though I still prefer to switch Tyson and Shawn .. This race will HAVE to be blown open by third leg .. Anchor has to bring it home strong ... Rae or Rodgers on anchor .. I didn't like that short stride on Doc ... Gotta go think ...
|
|
|
Relays
Aug 9, 2009 17:04:57 GMT -8
Post by zoser on Aug 9, 2009 17:04:57 GMT -8
SO your response is to reiterate the fallacy I just told you about. Look in the mirror. You are the one with the one track thinking. And you are so deep in it you cannot see clearly. Let me help you. I do not think we have to worry about TT actually leading off but he is flat and jetlagged. Rodgers blazed that backstretch and you are foul for saying otherwise. He just got there too and laid down a nice 100 and a good relay leg. 37.85 was a good time, especially with that tema on the track and the time period. Shawn looked good as did Allyson. Impressed by them both. They have been in Europe the whole time training, they are well ready. Doc looked like he always looks. I am glad you got to see what it is because we are missing an anchor leg. CJ was far from tight, she was relaxed and bouncy. She is also jetlagging and trained that morning and the day before. And she still decimated Williams on that leg. Lauryn is coming around again. Muna remains a question mark. Vet looked serviceable. I am comfortable with the women, they will race the clock, i think they will break that wr and do it in grand fashion.
Lastly the thinking is to pressure the the JAM not save Tyson, that is not the concern.
|
|
|
Relays
Aug 9, 2009 20:32:53 GMT -8
Post by sprint logic on Aug 9, 2009 20:32:53 GMT -8
No need to continue to be nasty about it .. I said long ago that we have different philosophies on putting relays together .. So be it ..
Never said Rodgers didn't run a nice backstretch .. Said it was not what it should have been given his competition and cited a comparison in what Allyson did on her leg ..
Rodgers earned his spot in the 100 and I don't see anyone trying to take that away from him .. Relay wise he is NOT a closer and didn't dominate that leg the way that he should have ... You say he will do better, I say I want to go with what I know .. This is a new stage for him .. Just as it was for Mo in '95, Tyson in '05, Bolt in '04 and '05 ..
Major's require a learning curve .. He can do his learning in the 100 where he impacts only himself .. In the relay I want vets that I can trust .. Especially on the heels of last year's failure ..
37.8 is a long way from 37.1, and my gut tells me this goes in at least 37.3 .. The backstretch MUST be a kill shot !!! And you can cite all the 100 races Rodgers has run in life, I'm not convinced he is the one to deliver it ... Not in the relay .. Short, start dependent, weak finisher .. Not a backstretch guy .. Maybe a first leg, but we have a better first leg ..
Given what I saw with Doc I am willing to take another look at anchor .. But frankly I see Rodgers as a Dixon in that spot .. And probably weaker than Dixon was because of his dependence on his start .. Personally of all the available individuals not named Tyson I see Rae as having the best anchor personality .. And that could be critical (personality) in this battle ..
We're not going into this well clear of the field .. This is going to come down to match ups .. Lose a match up and lose the race .. Jamaica will come strong 3 and 4 .. We must deliver on 1 and 2 .. And anchor doesn't have to be the fastest man on the track but he does have to be the most mentally secure .. He has to be ready to do something great .. Has to believe in himself .. Rae has the mind of a winner even when he is losing .. That's why some 10 flats are better than others in the relay !! ;-)
|
|
|
Relays
Aug 10, 2009 11:47:01 GMT -8
Post by balance on Aug 10, 2009 11:47:01 GMT -8
Many ways to run a relay. Uphill being slowest to fastest. Downhill being fastest to slowest. Some always anchor the fastest no matter what else happens. Some always start the fastest no matter what else happens. Some prefer to start hurdlers. Some run 200 men on the turns and some even run quarter milers third and anchor. The only thing that matters is that you win.
For my money the key matchup with Jamaica is Bolt. Minimize him as much as possible and outrun everyone else.
|
|
|
Relays
Aug 10, 2009 18:05:06 GMT -8
Post by zoser on Aug 10, 2009 18:05:06 GMT -8
Wasn't meant to be nasty but came across that way
|
|
|
Relays
Aug 11, 2009 5:56:52 GMT -8
Post by sprint logic on Aug 11, 2009 5:56:52 GMT -8
You're forgiven !!! LOL .. I understand your passion .. I'm passionate about it too .. We have a race that needs to be won .. Hopefully we can get the right squad out there to get the job done ..
|
|
wfh
New Member
Posts: 30
|
Relays
Aug 11, 2009 10:34:14 GMT -8
Post by wfh on Aug 11, 2009 10:34:14 GMT -8
Men's 6: Tyson, Rodgers, Patton, Spearmon, Crawford, Trammell Women's 6: Jet, Muna, Lauryn, Allyson, Vet, Alex
|
|
|
Relays
Aug 11, 2009 14:07:00 GMT -8
Post by zoser on Aug 11, 2009 14:07:00 GMT -8
No shock on the womens side but the mens choices are questionable.
Word is Rae is ailing and Travis is out and they are bringing in Leroy and Ivory. But they have chosen TT and Wallace already. Makes for an interesting week to say the least.
Meanwhile I am fairly certain as to what choice the coaches will make for the women and it will result in a wr. With Alex included and only Muna doubling the ladies are free to run any combo they see fit and based on fitness and rest. That is how you want it to be in the end
|
|
wfh
New Member
Posts: 30
|
Relays
Aug 11, 2009 14:28:39 GMT -8
Post by wfh on Aug 11, 2009 14:28:39 GMT -8
Wow. I hadn't heard that....I was aware that Rae was NOT happy in the least about it and voiced it rather loudly when announced.
I agree on the women's side.
What are you thinking zoser? I'm seeing (barring injury or serious fatigue):
Lauryn-Alex-Vet-Jet in the heat Lauryn-Allyson-Muna-Jet in the final
|
|
|
Relays
Aug 11, 2009 16:06:18 GMT -8
Post by sprint logic on Aug 11, 2009 16:06:18 GMT -8
What's wrong with Rae ?? Hadn't heard anything about him ailing ?? Is that code for something ??
Why are they enamored with Terrence ?? I have nothing against him, but Crawford is a turn blitzer !!! And Wally only makes sense .. He's been there before, knows the leg and the rest of the personnel and unless he is injured can get it done .. Ivory is interesting as he has been running well all summer .. Still not sure who should bring it home though ...
Yes, the women can finally take down that 41.37 !!! I like wfh's combo's .. Interesting of course that Jet would be taking the stick from two different people when the knock on her in '07 was that she wasn't good with the stick ... Times change ..
|
|
|
Relays
Aug 12, 2009 14:26:49 GMT -8
Post by zoser on Aug 12, 2009 14:26:49 GMT -8
I am thinking Vet has a good shot at running the final and it will depend on how the 200 goes and Muna's fitness.
For the men I have a feeling we will see some more changes. The issue is that from the heat to the final we may see complete changes in legs given the six announced members. Tyson and Shawn will likely not run the first round, although Shawn has before. So that means we are looking at TT at lead off and the inclusion of Wallace. Wallace is not running third so we are looking at complete restructure for the final.
|
|
|
Relays
Aug 12, 2009 15:17:33 GMT -8
Post by sprint logic on Aug 12, 2009 15:17:33 GMT -8
I agree that we will probably see a lot of changes with the men - and that scares me .. I believe that we could run our folk in both rounds and not have a problem .. First round you can go 38 high and make it out .. That should be auto pilot for this group ... No offense to the other guys looking for medals (because that's really what having the 6 is all about) but give em all a medal and let the four get better acquainted !!
|
|